What is Branding and Why is it Important?

Episode Transcript

Jake Braun:

Welcome to Kickin’ it with Kapok, a podcast about business stories and marketing advice. I'm Jake.

Mirela Setkic:

And I'm Mirela.

Jake Braun:

This is episode 26, "What is Branding and Why is it Important?" To help us with our discussion today, we’re joined by Teresa Mandala from Bella Designs Studio. She is an artist and creative professional. Bella Designs Studio is a virtual advertising studio. Before starting her own business, Teresa worked in advertising at an ad agency for 20 years. Teresa now helps clients with marketing, branding, and advertising. She fis also an artist and an art teacher.
Where should we go from there Mirela?

Mirela Setkic:

Well, this is kind of a big deal episode. Branding is one of those things that we often talk to people about, clients and especially local businesses and it's one of those things that is often very I guess misunderstood and taken for granted because a lot of business assume that okay, we're too small and branding doesn't really matter to us. All I need to do is go into Word and create a little logo for myself and put that logo on a business card and that's it. So sometimes, it's kind of like an uphill battle to convince someone that they really need to care about their branding from day one. It's just something that is huge regardless of your size and industry, you need to stand out. And so this, I'm actually very, very excited about this.

Jake Braun:

Yeah, branding is very undervalued by a lot of people and I think it's gonna be an exciting episode too.

Mirela Setkic:

I agree. So let's talk a little bit about Teresa and how did we even meet actually?

Teresa Mandala:

I think I reached out to you several months ago.

Mirela Setkic:

So who was the person who connected us? Was it Ashley from Green Bench?

Teresa Mandala:

No, we just made that mutual connection.

Mirela Setkic:

Really?

Teresa Mandala:

Yeah.

Mirela Setkic:

Oh my gosh, this is crazy. The world is such a huge and small place at the same time. Well, I guess welcome to our little podcast and our little room here.

Teresa Mandala:

Thanks for having me.

Mirela Setkic:

We're super excited to have you on. And I guess tell us a little bit about yourself and your studio and all that you do.

Teresa Mandala:

Well, like you mentioned, I've been in advertising for some time. I worked at an ad agency for many years and then made the transition to starting my own business. I first started out as a freelancer but it organically grew into a virtual studio and that takes up most of my time. I work with clients locally and nationally and I'm also an active artist. I've worked in many different mediums, wood, metal, I've done mosaics, I've painted in all mediums and currently I'm working in ceramics.

Mirela Setkic:

Yeah, I creeped on your Instagram a little bit and I saw some of the beautiful ceramic work that you did. I don't know if they're cups, I'm very low brow when it comes to art so I don't have all the art language. But are those mugs or cups or vases or what are those things that you're making?

Teresa Mandala:

The ones that you probably saw most recently, they're, what I call tumblers. And they're just smaller pieces 'cause my price points are a little bit higher because I do surface technique on it, technique called sgraffito and I'm also moving into painting. So it's very time intensive. So some of my tumblers kind of reflect elements of my, I do wall pieces, large wall pieces too. So they kind of pull elements from those wall pieces. So somebody that may not be able to obtain a wall piece, they can have a smaller piece.

Mirela Setkic:

Okay. Yeah, I was on your Instagram account and I was looking. I was like, oh man, this stuff looks very nice. It looks pretty professional. But Jake and I were talking about the virtual studio and we're like what is that? So tell us what that is.

Teresa Mandala:

Sure. So when I first started my business, it's been 11 years now, and when I first started it, it was at the time, everybody thought of an agency as a brick and mortar location. Big conference room, a lot of people in the agency and I was breaking out of that boundary and developed what I called virtual because everything's done online. And most of the time if I meet with clients, I go to them and meet with them. So I really didn't need the expense of a brick and mortar. So I positioned myself where I was a virtual studio so I didn't have a lot of the overhead. So I had the same quality of work as an ad agency but my costs were less because I didn't have the overhead.

Jake Braun:

Did you ever have any difficulty convincing clients that that was a good way to do it?

Teresa Mandala:

It took awhile but strangely enough that's where the trend was and it started heading to. So now I've met with a lot of different agencies like myself that have started up that way and a lot of people work remote.

Jake Braun:

So you were just a little bit ahead at the time?

Mirela Setkic:

Teresa's kind of a trailblazer.

Teresa Mandala:

You guys said it, I wouldn't say that but.

Mirela Setkic:

Oh my gosh.

Jake Braun:

What was it like to transition from working for someone else at the ad agency to having your own business?

Teresa Mandala:

You know what, it was perfect for me, my personality. I really like the freedom of it. I liked being able to work in a different environment every day if I wanted to. And being creative, that really fueled my creativity. I remember sitting in a coffee house one time and just getting inspired by somebody that was sitting there with a kid's keyboard writing music and just watching him helped inspire me, whatever I was working on that day. So that's what I really like is the flexibility.

Mirela Setkic:

Yeah, that's pretty interesting. I guess I never thought about that, just going to a public place and soaking up the energy from other people and seeing the environment and what's going on and kind of the mood of the situation. It can inspire, that's actually pretty cool.

Teresa Mandala:

And I've even met clients that way oddly enough.

Mirela Setkic:

Really?

Teresa Mandala:

Yeah 'cause you hear people's conversations. And I've heard a couple people sometimes, I'm looking for this, and it was exactly what I do. So you just hey, hate to interrupt but here's my business card, give me a call.

Mirela Setkic:

Really?

Teresa Mandala:

Yeah.

Mirela Setkic:

I wonder if that happens a lot actually. If all of these coffee places are kind of like low key networking events that are happening. People are just there to have coffee but really they're also there to get business.

Teresa Mandala:

Oh definitely, I think. Even here, when I've gone to different coffee places, I've heard people planning even events that are happening here. So it's kind of exciting 'cause you get the insider scoop.

Mirela Setkic:

Yeah. I think there are a lot of people in St. Pete who work from home or work from a place like the Station House, they just rent an office by the hour because they just don't want to be tied to a fixed office. And you have to come in every day. In my past life, I worked from home for nine months and I personally didn't like it. I don't know why, it just wasn't my thing but I was doing it wrong, I think. I wasn't going to coffee shops. I wasn't going outside of my house. I was just sitting at home and hanging out with my fridge and it was a terrible situation. So I had to get out of that. Do you have any other questions about Teresa's background?

Jake Braun:

Well speaking of St. Pete, you started the business in Kansas first, right? What was it like to move locations? Probably easy, since it was virtual?

Teresa Mandala:

Well, interesting enough, so I came from Kansas City, which a lot of people don't know is a very big creative hub. So a lot of entrepreneurs and creatives live and work there. And it's a big ad town too. So lot of advertising there in Kansas City. And so when I decided to move to St. Pete and I moved here for my art business, because I found a lot of my buyers are down here and the galleries that I sell from are down here, that so when I moved here it was a little bit of a culture shock, from Midwest to east coast, there is a difference.

Jake Braun:

I'm originally from Wisconsin and when I moved down here to Florida, it definitely was a transition. It's a little bit different here than it is there.

Teresa Mandala:

So you're a Midwest guy, so you know what I'm talking about.

Jake Braun:

For sure.

Mirela Setkic:

What year did you move to St. Pete?

Teresa Mandala:

It was, I moved here 2017.

Mirela Setkic:

Okay. So it was still a happening place? You didn't move here when it was dead and like dust was rolling down Central Avenue and all the windows were boarded? Okay, maybe it wasn't like that depressing but I think 2007, '08, '09, those were rough for St. Pete. That's when the economy went to you know what and people were closing their businesses down and St. Pete was very, very lonely and empty downtown. So you moved at a good time, not when we were struggling to make it. Well, that's really exciting actually. Have you ever met someone who lives here and says I hate living here?

Teresa Mandala:

I've only seen that online.

Mirela Setkic:

Okay online, oh you're right, on Facebook.

Teresa Mandala:

On Facebook, comments and different things. You hear a lot of negativity but I think that's the place I guess where people put a lot of the negativity.

Mirela Setkic:

That's true. You're right, you're right. I've seen negative comments online but never heard someones say it in person. Very interesting. So should we talk about branding? So let's get into it, what is it? What does branding mean to you?

Teresa Mandala:

Well that's a good question. I also teach a branding class for artists.

Mirela Setkic:

Oh, we're gonna learn something. Alright, I'm ready. Teach us.

Teresa Mandala:

So part of the thing that I teach them is so most people think of branding as just a logo. And branding is much more.

Mirela Setkic:

Way, way more.

Teresa Mandala:

Than a logo, yeah, as you know. So let's talk a little bit about a logo. A logo is basically in essence a metaphorical stamp of your business that clarifies your services or product or business in general. So a good logo would be something where somebody can look at just the logo, maybe have never seen it before and have a rough understanding of what your business is. And so the logo is maybe the first element of it but branding is the foundation of everything you build off of. So it could be colors and fonts. It really is, branding is a visual representation of your business, a first impression, that basically invokes an emotion. So people when they view it, they invoke emotion where let's say you look at Nike. Well, when I look at Nike, I want to go do something athletic or it feels empowering to me. So different brands represent different things like that.

Mirela Setkic:

Right, right. And I think that people just assume that the swoosh, the Nike swoosh immediately started communicating all of these messages and feelings and ideas that they now have of Nike. But that's not actually true. When it just started out, it was just a swoosh. Nike had to engage in all these practices, marketing promotions and practices to build the personality and the voice and the mission and the vision behind that brand. Had they not done that, then it would just be essentially a check mark.

Teresa Mandala:

Exactly.

Mirela Setkic:

To me, that's what branding is. It's all of the little pieces behind the scenes that you are doing to communicate to the outside world this is who we are, this is what we do. This is why we do it. And we find that a lot of people just stop at the logo. Actually, they stop at the business card. They get the logo and the business card and it's like okay, that's it, I'm done, I'm branded. Is that your experience or?

Teresa Mandala:

The clients I tend to work with have more of an understanding of it and an appreciation for branding and the importance of it. So normally when they pull me in, it's because they've went the different routes before where they've used 99 Designs, for 100 bucks, you can get a logo. And then they see that, well, I'm not getting any traction, I'm not being able to make sales or people have the wrong impression of my business. And then they come to me and they don't, how do I fix this? I just had a recent client come to me and they have this great service product that they want to roll out across the country and it hasn't gotten much traction yet and the first thing I told 'em, they had an established logo and I'm like, you need a new logo, we need to rebrand you. This is not targeting who you want to target. It needs to reflect your business a little bit more. So we start, he agreed and we're starting from scratch and rebuilding it and every client that I've done that for, so another part of my business is I want to make sure that I get results for my clients. I want them to see return of investment. And so a lot of my past clients, there's actual trackable results from doing this.

Mirela Setkic:

Yeah. And the other thing that I think a lot of people don't realize is that branding is also defining your target market and then segmenting your target market into your target audiences and saying, okay, this is the person I'm talking to, this is what kind of conversation do I need to have with this person? What type of messages and symbols and colors are going to really resonate with that person? And a lot of people just say well, I like color pink, I just want a pink logo. But then you come to realize that pink doesn't really communicate what their business stands for. And how do you overcome convincing someone that their original idea is not really the best for their logo?

Teresa Mandala:

That is the hardest thing to do.

Mirela Setkic:

So how does that happen?

Teresa Mandala:

Because a lot of times, a business can be an extension of themselves. It's their baby. They created this business and it's part of who they are. And so it's approaching it with empathy and giving them facts and explaining why this is the better way and showing them past examples helps to ease their mind so they know that I have the experience and I've done this for this client or whatever. And then, so I'm gonna use an example. So I had this one client, it was a consignment client where they develop pop up consignment sales for children's clothes and stuff. When they originally came to me, they had a really bad logo and everything was pink.

Mirela Setkic:

'Cause everyone loves pink.

Teresa Mandala:

Kids, pink, right?

Mirela Setkic:

Right, right.

Teresa Mandala:

And so I didn't rebrand 'em, they were really set on the logo. So sometimes in creative endeavors, you have to know when to just, they're the decision makers. So if they don't want to do it, that's fine. Well, they stuck with the logo. I rebranded them. So it was less pink, more other hues, little softer, not so in your face and they started seeing traction. And after a few years down the road, then they went back to the logo and they decided to redo it. So sometimes it takes a little seeing how other things work--

Mirela Setkic:

For the business or the client to trust you and say, okay, I see that you understand what I should be doing. I guess that's kind of been our experience too. Usually, when someone approaches us, they tell us that they love their logo. Well I think people are in one of the two buckets. They either hate their logo or they love their logo. There's no one ever in the middle, like I'm kind of okay with it.

Jake Braun:

There's the group of people that just think it doesn't matter too, like they know their logo isn't great or perfect but they just think it's not gonna have an impact. And they don't realize that every other thing that they do in marketing or advertising or whatever they're doing, it has an impact on it, like people are seeing that logo.

Mirela Setkic:

Yeah. Not long ago, we had someone approach us, wanted to rebrand, and we went through the whole exercise of trying to, we're pitching to the person like you need a new logo, you need a slogan, you need all of these things and the person was in love with it and then couple days past, the person sent us a Word document and said, look, I created my own logo and we're like okay. What do we do here? That is the level of appreciation that that person has for logos and branding and I don't know where to go from here.

Jake Braun:

Yeah, I think at that point, either we didn't do enough job explaining its importance or they just weren't gonna, it just wasn't gonna happen anyway.

Mirela Setkic:

Yeah, it's very crazy. I was recently reading a book, it was some type of branding book and in it the author talked about how not having a logo or a brand is like being a person without a face.

Teresa Mandala:

Mmhmm.

Mirela Setkic:

Imagine if all of us here had no faces. How would we recognize each other? I guess by voice. But then your voice is part of your branding too. So that was very interesting. So I always try to tell clients, if you have no logo, no branding, your business essentially has no face.

Teresa Mandala:

Pretty much.

Mirela Setkic:

Which I guess is a lot to swallow, especially if someone has been in business for awhile and they're like, what do you mean I don't have a face? I have customers, I have business, people find me. And it's like okay but more people could be finding you. So it's very interesting. What is the, let's see what else should we talk about?

Jake Braun:

I think we talked about a little bit developing a brand but I don't know if there's anything else that we can mention there.

Mirela Setkic:

Yeah. Do you think that people can do it on their own? If I'm a small cupcake shop, can I do my branding on my own or should I always seek outside help? And I should say that I don't have any marketing or branding experience. I'm just really good at making cupcakes.

Teresa Mandala:

Well thanks for clarifying. So I would say you wouldn't hire a butcher to cut your hair.

Mirela Setkic:

Fact.

Teresa Mandala:

So the same is true in creating a logo. So there's more to creating a logo then making something look good. So colors, so I tend to explain to my clients branding is about sociology, it's about psychology, it's picking colors that evokes the emotion that is good for your brand or will entice your audience. Certain imagery or shapes are going to invoke an emotion. It's a lot about empathy and touching somebody in a way to motivate them to want to seek you out.

Mirela Setkic:

Right.

Teresa Mandala:

So if somebody just, so let's say you put all this money into an ad budget on Facebook and your logo's on there and your graphics and everything, which is your brand, is on there and it's not invoking that emotion, you're not going to get a response. So your assumption may be those ad buys are bad, but really it's not, it's your brand.

Mirela Setkic:

Yeah. It's essentially affecting the performance of your ads and you are assuming that you, you could assume that you need better ads but really you just need a better logo.

Jake Braun:

Or more likely you assume that Facebook isn't a good advertising platform and stop advertising there and then you've lost one of the biggest places that maybe you could be advertising because you have a misconception about what's going on with your campaign.

Teresa Mandala:

Exactly.

Mirela Setkic:

That's true. That's true. So what is your process like when someone comes to you and they're like, okay Teresa, I'm opening a new business, I need to brand myself. So how do you, explain the journey that you take 'em on?

Teresa Mandala:

Sure. So that's a fun part for me because my personality type is an explorer and curiosity. So it's like my favorite part. And I do this with any level of creative work that I do is I do the research first, which not everybody does. I have a questionnaire that I ask 'em, I ask 'em a lot of questions about their business and the environment of their business. How's office life? How does it feel? Also good for me to understand the personality of the owner and how they work. And then getting into their business and then getting into their target audience. And then looking into their competitors and seeing what they're doing and what's working for them and what's not. And then looking in the overall market in the area. If they're a national client, then I need to look nationally. If they're local, I need to look locally. And then once I understand that, I start working on concepts. And I always start in black versions of concepts and I always explain to 'em because any logo looks good in color.

Mirela Setkic:

But the true test--

Teresa Mandala:

The true test, as you know, is if it looks great in one color, it's gonna look excellent in color. So I start there, we go through several rounds of revisions and then once the black version is approved, then we move to color options and then I provide several color options for them. And there may be some revisions there as well. And then I produce final files. And that's for print, for digital and just provide all the different file types for them.

Mirela Setkic:

Okay. Do you ever find that some people have a tough time choosing when they see something in black and white and they want to see color before they make a decision?

Teresa Mandala:

I've had some where they really want to tell me what colors they want to choose and I just pull 'em back and focus on the black and white version. And what I've run into, they usually pick either one where they absolutely love or there's two of 'em and they're not sure, so then we make some tweaks or sometimes combining them in a way helps them where they really fall in love.

Mirela Setkic:

Okay, yeah, that makes sense. I guess we should talk about the money aspect of it. How much does it cost? You mentioned 99 Designs or even Upwork, you can go and you can buy a logo for $25 but you get what you pay for. So how much should a good logo cost?

Teresa Mandala:

So it depends too on how many concepts you want to see. So typically, I provide five to six concepts and that's $1,800. And the reason for that is all the work that I said. It's the research, it's looking into that and also creating and concepting is, as you know, you can't just poof, it's there. It takes time to develop.

Mirela Setkic:

They don't see all of the notes that you took, all the sketches that you did before you present the five options to them.

Teresa Mandala:

And the five or six options, there's probably many more logos that I opted not to send 'em but they were part of the process. I do offer lower prices for less concepts but I don't necessarily recommend 'em because if I present you three concepts, there's a chance that it's not, you're not gonna be happy with one of those and you want to see more which I'm flexible in producing less first and if you need more, we can do that. But usually people go with the $1,800 because that is a really good package and typical.

Jake Braun:

Yeah, that seems very fair for that number of concepts.

Mirela Setkic:

Very fair, and this is something that influences all aspects of a business. So you want to spend some money on it and some time and make sure that it is what you want it to be because it will be the face of your business. So if you spend five dollars. You don't want people to know that you spent five dollars on your logo and like you didn't really care. You went on Fiverr and you paid someone five bucks and they probably just, it's even dangerous to go online and do that because they can sometimes copy someone else's logo.

Teresa Mandala:

Happens all the time.

Mirela Setkic:

And then you have a situation on your hands.

Jake Braun:

Or they've used stuff that they bought at another website that they include in the logo that prevents it from being trademarked in the future. There's all kinds of caveats with stuff like that.

Teresa Mandala:

Yeah, I often tell them, so 99 Designs, and I've run into clients quite a bit where I have gone that route and they realize that in 99 Designs, a lot of its stock clip art and so they may not know that because they aren't looking through the stock images but their audience may realize that it's clip art and that realization alone cheapens your brand and they will think of your business as cheap.

Mirela Setkic:

Yes or a copy of a copy of a copy. It just looks very diluted and very kind of like, well, as a customer, I can see that you gave up. So it's one of those things, like I gave up when you gave up. Why should I care about a business that doesn't care about themselves and doesn't care about their own image? So I think people, it's often very tempting to get blinded by the price points like oh my God, there's $1,800 but there's five dollars. I can get so many of these five dollar logos for the $1,800 but you have to think about the quality of the five dollar logos, the amount of time you're going to spend going back and forth with someone who does a five dollar logo and the risk of encroaching on someone else's logo and breaking the law and being sued. And so I think that $1,800 is super reasonable. And you really need to, it's an investment and if someone is getting married, it's like a big day in their life, it's like, oh I want to spend $5,000 on my wedding dress. It's kind of like getting the logo. You want to spend some serious money on it so everyone can see how amazing your company is.

Jake Braun:

I think this is probably a good time to transition into the benefits then. Because that's really what you're paying that extra money for. What are you gonna get when you spend that extra money? I think we've touched on a few of 'em, like where it increases the value of all the other stuff you're doing or makes it easier.

Mirela Setkic:

Yeah, and gives you the opportunity to kind of control your own brand, voice and personality. You're essentially kind of a little bit in control of your destiny because you're not letting other people define your company from the outside. When someone comes to you and you go through the exploration journey and you're learning about them, I'm assuming it's kind of like a joint effort where they end up learning something about themselves during that process. You teach them that oh maybe this is how your customers see you and they maybe never even thought about that. So I think it's a good kind of like self discovery process.

Teresa Mandala:

Well, what I teach in my branding class is branding is a promise to your customers. It's also what they can expect from your product and services. It differentiates you from your competitors and it often triggers an emotional response. So all those together help motivate your client or perspective buyers to motivate them to seek you out or to go to your store or look into that offer that is being presented on Facebook. Branding also, so let's say you build a website or you want to do an ad campaign, branding is part of that. It's the tone in your message, it's what's the style of how you communicate with them? Is it upbeat and friendly or is it real polished and professional? And that really depends on your audience as well. So it really falls into all those categories of knowing how to build the rest of your brand and your campaigns and messages.

Mirela Setkic:

So it all comes together and it tells one big story and people know, okay, this is this product or service, this is how it's different from all of the other products and services in its space and these are the benefits that I'm going to get by consuming this product and service. And I don't think that businesses should assume that people can just like look at their product and service and know what that promise is. It's not like build it, they will come type of situation. You need to put some work into it.

Teresa Mandala:

Well and I feel like I need to emphasize too that it's important to be cohesive in your brand.

Mirela Setkic:

The uniform message everywhere, yes.

Teresa Mandala:

Exactly, so your logo may say something and then if your tone and your message is different, it's gonna be disjointed and it's not gonna be a solid brand. So that's part of branding is to make sure that it's cohesive and it keeps repeating that same message that you're trying to get through to your audience. And going back to Nike, and they've done that same cohesive message that now all you have to see is that mark and you know exactly what it is. It evokes all those emotions because you've had so much repetition of it that it's just second nature now at this point.

Mirela Setkic:

Yeah. You know the story. And they tell you the story and that's what really businesses should be doing is telling a story. Not leaving it up to other people outside of the company to tell the story. And for example, your business card shouldn't have a different logo from what your website has or whatever the case, your packaging should have the same logo as your website. So people can recognize it. If I see a chocolate wrapper on the street that someone inappropriately dropped, I should be able to see like oh okay, that is that brand. I recognize it. But if you have split personalities, and you're just all over the place, it's a hot mess of a situation. So yeah, that makes sense, I agree. Anything else we should talk about in terms of benefits?

Jake Braun:

No. I think one other thing we like to ask everyone is maybe a little bit about how they market themselves?

Mirela Setkic:

Oh yeah, tell us how Teresa markets herself.

Jake Braun:

Yeah.

Teresa Mandala:

Well, so I've been in business for a very long time. So a lot of it's networking. A lot of it's word of mouth, past clients that have been happy with my work, they share it with other people looking for services of the same. I also do what I kind of did here, reach out to other marketing firms and ad agencies too and just introduce myself because a lot of times, I find that knowing each other, we can help support each other with different things as well. And then, so I don't do a lot of ad buys myself just because from my experience, it just hasn't really worked for me but I do other avenues, I do more guerrilla marketing. So it's more getting my logo out there, getting that brand out there and I'm pulling business that way.

Mirela Setkic:

And that probably works with the clients that you're trying to attract. Networking's super powerful. And really when you're in a business to business industry, it's all about relationships. And if we can have a face to face, then we can definitely establish a relationship which is in that case probably more powerful than seeing a Facebook ad.

Teresa Mandala:

Exactly.

Mirela Setkic:

So you've probably found the secret sauce for you.

Teresa Mandala:

Well and I also work with national clients that I have never met before in person that I've had video conferencing with and conversations that way. So we're in a new age. So networking has gone to a new level now too.

Mirela Setkic:

I know. It's so crazy. And it's like, it seems like people know you online and then when you meet them in person, it's like oh my God, this is so strange. We know each other but we don't know each other. So it's a very, very crazy experience. And I'm sure you know that too. But yeah, I guess you can talk to anyone anywhere on the planet and feel like you're friends. And you can probably spend your entire life never even meeting that person ever in person and think that you're super close which is amazing. So is there anything else?

Jake Braun:

Is there anything else we should've asked you or anything else you want to share with people or did we cover it all?

Teresa Mandala:

Oh gosh.

Jake Braun:

Or if there's nothing else, maybe just tell people where they can find you if you're interested in maybe learning more about getting a good brand for themselves?

Teresa Mandala:

Yeah. So if anybody is interested in branding or even marketing, building your brand, you can visit my website at www.bella-designs.biz. And even on my website, I have samples of work and even samples of my fine art work too.

Mirela Setkic:

Yeah and also in your Instagram you have some examples of your fine art. I don't know if you want people to go there, maybe I'm just a creeper who found you.

Teresa Mandala:

No, I'm on Facebook and Instagram. More on my Instagram is more of my fine art work.

Mirela Setkic:

And then your website is where they can go see the logos that you've done and all of that stuff?

Teresa Mandala:

And my contact information.

Mirela Setkic:

Alright, awesome. Well thank you so much for coming in to talk to us little people here.

Teresa Mandala:

Thanks for having me.

Mirela Setkic:

And this was a lot of fun and hopefully you had a good time.

Teresa Mandala:

I did, you guys are wonderful.

Mirela Setkic:

Thank you so much. And we had fun and thank you again.

Teresa Mandala:

Thanks.

Jake Braun:

It’s been a great 26th episode. We’d like to again thank Teresa Mandala for joining us today. Feel free to reach out to us if you have any questions or comments about anything we talked about today or marketing in general. You can visit us on our website, KickinItWithKapok.com, or on social media. We're on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter as Kapok Marketing.
This has been Kickin’ it with Kapok brought to you by Kapok Marketing. Thanks for listening. We’ll have something just as great for you next time.